Selling Books at Conventions Made EASY

Join Drake and Marie as they discuss what you can expect from selling your books at a convention like ComicCon
 
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Transcript

We're still on the speaking thing. How do you handle nerves or stage fright before speaking to large audience?

I guess, like I have found, the thing that gives me the most confidence is the realization and that pretty much you could you could fall down on stage

and no one would remember

because you're just not that important in their lives.

So the very first time I was invited to Comic-Con to speak,

they gave me one class. It was a room of about 650 people, and by the time I got there was standing room only rows already. People lined up against the back wall. Matter of fact, when because I was nervous, because I was, you know, it's my first time speaking there.

And so I walked into the room and I looked out and, you know, saw my name on the door thingy. And I walked into the room, looked around the room and saw it was packed. And I literally turn around, walked out, not because I was like not because I was nervous of where it was. I obviously I'm in the wrong room like literally it was just this is obviously and I went out and I looked in, my name was on it.

There was a doorman there, and I was like, Who's speaking in here? And he was like, Maxwell, Alexander Drake. I was like, okay. And so I walked in and and I did make a joke about it because I was like, So you guys are all here to see Maxwell, Alexander Drake talk. And they were like, Yeah. And I think, you know, Bruce Campbell is in the next room.

Like, I would rather be over there. And they didn't know who I was, you know, or at least a lot of them. So when I then turned because I, you know, this was 17 years ago, this is the first year I spoke at Comic-Con. So instead of using the stairs to get up on the stage, I jumped at the front of the stage, jump up there, and my foot got on the stage and I face planted and I went and for my next trick.

So I literally did for the very first time I was speaking.

Releasing your inner dragon.

So where have you been that we didn't record for like three weeks straight.

So there for my entire career so far. There was Comic-Con and then a week off and then Gen Con and Comic-Con, being the largest fan convention in the United States, is exhausting, and having a week off is nice. And Gen Con being the largest fantasy convention in the United States is exhausting. Well, because of football, Gen Con had to slide a week sooner.

And so now for the rest of my existence, I will be doing San Diego Comic-Con, driving home on Monday to have about a ten hour turnaround time to get on a plane to fly to Indianapolis for Gen Con. That was my life. This this last month was two major conventions back to back.

So we thought that since Drake has just returned from a convention, that we would have a conversation about what it takes to be a professional author at a convention, how you get into it, what you do there, what kind of interaction is like, and all of those kinds of questions.

What I wish I was 20 years ago.

Yeah, we sourced a whole bunch of questions from the writers room and kind of, you know, people who are interested in this topic and we're going to go through those. And Drake can answer them.

you've you've been me. You went with me last year to Comic-Con. Yeah. The advantage you had is that was probably my 15th Comic-Con, so I had already kind of worked out the nuts and bolts and already taken all the crappy licks to, Wow, don't do that ever again. It's a little bit of an advantage. What do they say?

My favorite statement to say is they say a smart man learns from his own mistakes and a wise man learns from other mistakes. Which is why I'm a very, very smart man.

So. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. So how do you prepare for let's just dive straight into the first question is how do you prepare for a speaking engagement at a convention or festival? Is there a routine you follow beforehand?

So there is there's a lot to do. There's a lot to get together. And when I first started doing it, you know, these are things that I had to learn through trial and error. There's things that you just don't even realize that you would need, like tape or scissors or clips or like there's just all sorts of things that as you're doing these conventions, you're at them and you're like, Man, I wish I had X right now because this thing came up, and if I had this tool or this thing, my life would be so much easier because I wasn't expecting whatever.

So over these last 20 years, as things have happened, I've been collecting what I call my convention kit. So I have I literally have a to do list on my phone, a little app, and I check it off every convention and then I just uncheck it all so that it is back not done. And it's everything. It's broken down into a couple parts.

One is stock. Stock is things that I'm going to sell, stocks, my books, my merchandizing, whatever. And so I have those all listed. I've already decided what I'm taking. And, you know, I've got a list of it and the amounts that I want to take depending on the convention I have my booth set up.

So so I think I think we're getting a little bit off the topic of the question, which is how do you prepare for a speaking engagement?

Well, it's still the same thing. It's how do I prepare? Because I'm going to speak at a place that I have a booth. I'm not going to speak if I don't have a booth. And I'm I don't like doing booth if I'm not speaking. So, you know, because that's what's going to the next thing is my classes. So I have a checklist for that.

My laptop, my, you know, any handouts that I'm doing, what class I'm giving. So I have these little checklists for all these different things that I'm doing to make sure that I am going to be taking everything. But then you have other things, like a lot of them need parking passes, you need your hotel room information, you need your badge, pick up information.

So there's all these things. So that's, you know, that's another checklist that I have, which is the convention checklist.

So I just have that's my

that's what I do. I have checklists, and depending on what I'm doing, I either use all the checklists or some of the checklists or whatever.

I mean, obviously there are some things where I don't have a booth where I'm just speaking or whatever, so I'll use different checklists, but that is my that is how I prepare. I have because I've been doing it for so long, I have these checklists that I broke everything down into individual components so that if I'm doing all of them, I can just pull out all the checklists and go down through them if I'm doing one or two of them.

And it just depends on what I'm doing.

So second question is what are the key differences between speaking at smaller, more intimate events versus large conventions like Comic-Con?

A lot of time, a lot of preparation that you don't have to do

for the bigger ones. I'm usually doing something specific for them. So for Comic-Con and Jen Con, I'm doing specific Comic-Con giveaways, specific gen con giveaways, you know, contests for them, whatever, because it's a bigger thing. And I'm going to make more money so therefore I can spend a little bit more money.

I'm doing, you know, a small little writers thing. Well, I was invited like four days before Comic-Con this year. I got an email from somebody that says, You know, I'm really embarrassed to say this, but I didn't know you lived in Vegas, and I run a small little convention in Vegas, and it's going on this weekend. We are already set up, but man, I give you a free ticket if you want to come down.

You know, there's only 28 of us, so we're just in this one room each time. But we'd love to. You know, I'll set aside an hour and you can just talk about yourself and all of that. And I'm like, Great, Because I leave Monday head in San Diego for Comic-Con, but I'm like, Sure, I'll come down one day.

So, you know, I took a small little bag with a handful of books. I think I maybe took 20, 25 books down there of two or three different types,

not 25 of each, but like 25 total.

And then I just went down there literally with a bag and that was it, you know, business cards to pass out, but nothing else.

I wasn't doing a class. I was just going to Freeform talk like this. So ask me whatever, I'll say whatever.

So I think that that is important to note that you should take business cards at the very least with you because you want to be able to give people something that they can get in touch, lock you up, etc. etc..

Yeah,

even you know, you would think that because I've done that before where I'll meet somebody that's like look, it's really easy. Maxwell Alexander Drake, Google that, you will find me and then I'll bump into that person a year later and they're like, I remember meeting you. I was going to look you up. I couldn't remember your name.

And I'm like, Maxwell, Alexander Drake. You would think that that's a pretty unique name to remember. It's the only one on the but but yeah, I get but even like the funniest thing is the guy that introduces me at Comic-Con every year. This is my 17th year speaking at Comic-Con, and I love him to death, but up until probably four years ago, he still introduced me.

You know, he get up there, he's like, you know, as a staple, He's here every year. We love him to death. He's one of our most requested speakers, Maxwell Anthony Drake.

For like, you know, be amazing, you know, be really amazing. If every year he had a different name and it would never Alexander Wright Maxwell Anthony Drake Maxwell.

Talking about.

Drake. Maxwell. Aaron Drake. Yeah.

But every time the funny thing is is one of his jobs is for every speaker they print out the little tabletop things. So every year the first thing he does is here's your tabletop thing and it's got Maxwell Alexander Drake on it. And every until about three or four years ago, he literally called me Anthony Drake every year.

You should literally just have used a different I mean, it's funny, I.

Would have been nice, but yeah, so it's weird that, you know, you would think that that would be something that you would get.

All right. Next question.

We're still on the speaking thing. How do you handle nerves or stage fright before speaking to large audience?

I'm a terrible person. Ask this. I mean, what about you? Because, I mean, I don't I get I'm an extrovert.

So I'm.

On stage.

I'm a I'm a really bad person to ask this because I was a little shy and a little retiring as a child. And my mother was like, well, you need to learn how to, you know, speak to people, So you're going to do drama now. So I did 12 years of job at 12 years of drama, learning how to, you know, overcome by stage fright as a child.

I guess, like I have found, the thing that gives me the most confidence is the realization and that pretty much you could you could fall down on stage

and no one would remember

because you're just not that important in their lives.

So the very first time I was invited to Comic-Con to speak,

they gave me one class. It was a room of about 650 people, and by the time I got there was standing room only rows already. People lined up against the back wall. Matter of fact, when because I was nervous, because I was, you know, it's my first time speaking there.

And so I walked into the room and I looked out and, you know, saw my name on the door thingy. And I walked into the room, looked around the room and saw it was packed. And I literally turn around, walked out, not because I was like not because I was nervous of where it was. I obviously I'm in the wrong room like literally it was just this is obviously and I went out and I looked in, my name was on it.

There was a doorman there, and I was like, Who's speaking in here? And he was like, Maxwell, Alexander Drake. I was like, okay. And so I walked in and and I did make a joke about it because I was like, So you guys are all here to see Maxwell, Alexander Drake talk. And they were like, Yeah. And I think, you know, Bruce Campbell is in the next room.

Like, I would rather be over there. And they didn't know who I was, you know, or at least a lot of them. So when I then turned because I, you know, this was 17 years ago, this is the first year I spoke at Comic-Con. So instead of using the stairs to get up on the stage, I jumped at the front of the stage, jump up there, and my foot got on the stage and I face planted and I went and for my next trick.

So I literally did for the very first time I was speaking.

So, you know, in a way it's a little bit like Internet comments, right? So I'm like YouTube channel for example. I have learned not to engage with comments that argue with some point I'm making in the video like somebody disagrees with the point of my video and they post a long screed about why they disagree. The thing is, I don't delete the comment because I appreciate the engagement on the video.

Negative engagement, positive engagement. The algorithm doesn't care. So I'm I'm glad for the comment, but I've learned not to engage with it, not to argue with the point, neither to acknowledge it nor to argue with it. And the reason is there are like thousands of people who watch my videos and one of me out of those thousands of people, around 18% are going to find a reason to, you know, angrily post about the video for whatever reason.

You know, maybe I stepped on their Lord of the Rings law or whatever, like and and if I engage with them, there's like ten of them shouting things at me. I this this to me yeah right. But for them this just one of me.

Right.

Yeah. And it's a lot like that, Like I see those comments all the time for them. That just noise. Yeah. It's the same when you're, when you're talking on a stage. Yeah. For that moment it feels like everybody's watching you. But honestly, they're going to walk out that room and if you didn't do well, you didn't do.

Well. Yeah.

Like they're not going to remember you for the rest of their lives and snicker about it. You are not that important to that.

Yeah, Yeah. I mean, that's one way to think about it. I just trying to do the best I can. I know that what I do is subjective. I know that. That you can't bat a thousand. And so when I it's the reason why I don't read my reviews either. Because you can't please everybody. So why do I care when if it is still that you know, I look at my scores if I'm running a 4.7, 4.8, 4.9 out of five stars, then that means the vast majority of people out there are appreciating what I'm putting out.

I can't hit better than that. So why would I want to wallow in the couple that don't appreciate what I do now? It is weird to me when I have people that say like, I've got one anti-fan who literally comes to every thing I do, every public appearance that I do. He's there, and after every one, he comes up to me to tell me how much of a piece of garbage I am, how everything I said was stupid and wrong.

And and then he's like, Do you want it? You know, because. Because I usually will go out to dinner afterwards with whoever. And he always do. And like I, I that's the type of person that I don't understand. I don't understand why you keep coming. If I'm not the person for you. Like if you watched me once and you're like, I don't like anything you had to say, and then that's it.

I never see you again for the rest of my life. Great, because I wasn't for you. But this guy follows me everywhere.

Actually, you should be able to understand it. It's like hate watching sick people who hate what shows that they don't like so that they can bitch about it.

Yeah, I don't think it's that. I actually think that it's jealousy and he feels insecure, so he has to lash out. That's what I believe. I could be wrong on that. But I don't believe he actually believes what he says. I think he's just lashing because otherwise I just don't see him like coming to a public event of mine, driving out of his way, taking 2 hours of his time to come to something that I'm speaking at or whatever, and to get in, I just don't see him doing that.

I think he does get stuff out of it. It's just that he feels, you know, some people just feel insecure or they feel some people live life with a zero sum game. I can't win unless you lose like I live by. The rising tide rises all boats. So I want everyone to be better because it makes me better because every one of us are going to improve from that.

But a lot of people live by that zero sum game. They live by that. I can't be successful unless I'm destroying you and I just don't live by that. And I know, but some people do. And I think he's that type of person that lives by that. You know, I can't be successful unless I destroy you. That's the only thing I can do.

I just want to briefly touch on this. How do you handle speaking to large audiences and so on, the couple of things that you can do to prepare for it if you get invited or whatever to speak before large audiences and you're afraid, set up your phone and videotape yourself speaking, watch yourself speaking, understand what you look like, and practice.

Practice, practice, practice.

You know it does it Just believe me, I am not a naturally extroverted, but it does get easier.

But when you when you're a guest speaker, how much input do you have on the topics you'll discuss? You get to choose your own panel or are they assigned?

Yes. So it just depends. Some conventions, they just randomly put me to different things. Some conventions are sadistic and I'll say stuff like, I'll do anything but this. And that's the thing they give me most of the time because I don't do a lot of panels and I and I just stay away from things, panels. One of the reasons why I never do a podcast with anyone is because a lot of people give advice that I don't agree with.

And if I don't agree with it, I'm not the type of person that can just sit there. So like when me and you met and we were different on things, but we were well aligned on enough that it's perfectly because the thing that we're different on are subjective, we're not different on anything that's factual. And so like me and you have a great time, we can discuss topics and we can talk about things because generally, as far as the like, you should not use weak verbs as opposed to like if you were that kid that I talked about is like, no, no, you should use wheat verb only and no punctuation and capitalized nothing.

And literally, like if you, if that was your stance, me and you would not be able to discuss that topic together because I would rage and fume and be like, you no like, yeah, so, so I don't like panels because I end up with people like that and then I look like the jerk because then I get to be the bad guy by completely raging against them.

Because I think what their the advice they're giving is going to hurt people. And I just can't I can't stand by with it. So I do mostly solo panels.

Actually, if you want to see my worst panel, it's still on the internet somewhere. I was it

was it the the

life, the universe and everything, which is a big fantasy panel.

And I was put on a panel, actually, I should say this is a very bad I was put on a panel that I didn't want to be on discussing a topic I didn't want to talk about. So I literally bowed out of it. As far as like I just said, I don't know anything about it. And I sat there and shut up.

But actually I had a lot to say about I just didn't say anything. So I don't want to say anything, but I shouldn't have gone down that path.

And it's something in private I don't mind discussing, but that's a touchy topic. But anyway, so a lot of times I have, you know, I have what, 20 to 25 different classes that I give their all hour long with PowerPoint.

You know, they're all organized and all that. So a lot of times what I do is I give them that list and then they choose which ones and I don't care. I'll do any of them at any time. So, you know, and there's some that I like. I feel like the world building class has done too much. Every convention has two or three people talking about world building.

And so, yes, I have a world building class, but like, that's one of my when a convention, one of the last little writers groups that I spoke to, that's what they picked. And I was like, okay, I'll do it because I don't go into the detail that you go into, you know, my world building class. I get I get 45 minutes.

So people, people, people talk about world building in the dumbest was like with the best well in the world I yeah yeah.

Well that's awesome.

I thought world building in these large generic terms that are I don't understand what possible value people get out of these high level like who cares.

Well, but that's one of the reasons why I am invited everywhere. It's one of the reasons why I am the only author that's been invited to speak at San Diego Comic-Con for 17 years in a row. It's because when I was in the audience and I was the one going to panels and writers conferences and paying to be in the audience, I would say I got nothing out of this.

Like, why am I here? Why am I listening to this idiot talk about this topic? I'm not getting anything. So I always said, Man, if I ever get up there, I'm going to do it different. And so that's the reason why, like the only complaint I get about my classes is that there's too much in them. I'm a fire hose of information, but I don't mind that as a complaint.

Like like. So you're complaining that I gave you too much value for your money? Like that's what you're complaining about? Because they're like, Yeah, I had to watch the the recording like four times to get everything. I'm like, okay. It's like.

What? What exactly is your problem?

Right? So no, that's why I do it that way is because again, when I was in the audience, I always felt like I never got anything. Yeah. And so if I'm going to do that, I want to make sure that I really, really, really. But that's why people talk about my classes in such high regard is because there is so much quality information into it.

It's probably why I don't like my world building because, as you know, there's a lot like you have an entire channel and you haven't run out of topics and you want me to do it in 45 minutes.

Yeah. So, so when I went on the very odd occasion, when I do like a high level thing, I, I don't talk about specific building topics. I talk about a structured approach to get your theme and start writing as fast as possible.

Right.

Because you cannot in a single lecture cover.

Right?

The breadth right of, of building a fully secondary world. It is not.

That's why it's my favorite class that I give because there's again and a lot of has to do with me my other classes have so much information and you can literally take one of my classes, walk out and be a better writer. Right then I do stuff you can use right then and the world building because there's so much and because it's a little bit more esoteric, I don't know.

It doesn't satisfy me as much as my other classes.

But yeah.

I'm base. It's all of those. Sometimes they give me it, sometimes they pick. Sometimes I say, You know what I'd really like to give? I'd like to give this class.

Yeah. What are the logistics like for attending these events? You coordinate with your publisher or handled travel and accommodation yourself. So this depends on whether you self-publishing or whether you are a traditionally published. If you are self-publishing, it's all on you.

But it also depends on the convention. Yes. So smaller conventions are a lot of time. You're on your own. So they're like, here's the convention, here's the where the city is at. This is the convention, you know, and then you just get your own, whatever some of them are, pan for stuff. You know, when I'm an author, guest of honor, they're paying for the hotel, they're paying for the flight, they're paying for everything.

So, you know, they handle the accommodations. Some of them like the bigger ones, like your gin coupons and commissions, they have portals. So, you know, as an exhibitor at both those, we have a block of rooms that are available to us as exhibitors. So we log into their portal. We use their software to book the hotel and pay for everything through that.

And there's that. So it really it's across the board on the different levels that you have to decide on what you know if.

You're a traditional publisher. Well.

That's why I was going to push back on. If you're traditionally published, you're also on your own. They don't do shit for you. Nothing at.

All. It depends on how famous you are.

Or if you're a Stephen King. Then the world is delivered to you in rose covered baskets.

Well, I mean, like Jacqueline Carey, like the her publisher with the release of her latest book with With Concealed Servant, they flew to all the conventions and she did like a massive search.

Yeah, but if you're not.

But if you're not a New York based selling author. All right. So that's that's kind of the standard. You're in New York, bestselling author, your publisher will do it. You're not. You're on your own.

Actually, that's not true, because most New York selling authors don't get anything because they still even to be a New York selling author. You don't make that much money. Yeah, I want to see the average New York. If you just take the average and this is my my numbers I think are from 2017. But in 2017, the average income and we're talking an average that includes your Stephen King's as well.

But if you take the entire New York Times bestseller list, the average salary is, I want to say it was 86,000. So you can make more money managing a McDonald's than you can being a New York Times bestselling author. And those people get nothing. They just get nothing. It's the Stephen King's, you know, the John Grisham. They get everything.

But you got to be.

You know, to be a really big name for your publisher and a proven track record for your.

Publisher. That seven figure copies selling before they bend over backwards for you. If you're a B-level author. I mean, you know, my last thing I was in the couple 100,000 selling range. Even at that level, your publisher just doesn't do much for you. They just don't because that's not the level that they're going to cater to at that level.

You're paying the bill, you're paying the bills for the publisher for what you're doing. The way that works is you have about 5% of the authors in a publishing house that are the top echelon. You have about 20% of what's called B-level authors, which is what I was or am, or whatever you want to say. And then you have about 75% of the authors that lose money.

Yeah. So the 75% of the authors that lose money, they're losing money. So obviously I'll give anything us 20%. We're breaking even, we're paying for work. We're definitely putting money into the kitty, but we're not making them profit. Those 5% are covering the loss of the 75% loss, making the profit for the company. And when you're making profit for the company, they will cater to you.

But even that 20%, those B-level authors get almost nothing because you're just you know, you're at a level where, yeah, you're you're a good product, you know, you sell consistently. We're not losing money on you. You may even put a dollar or two in the kitty, but that's all you are. You're just a product that's basically selling well, but you're not.

Yeah, you're not making us the profit. You're not making us money. And so it's weird. So don't think that.

The peanut gallery says it's very depressing that New York Times best selling authors make less than Mickey D's managers. And I'm like, Well, if you're if you're going into writing to get rich, I, I have some good news and some bad news. You can do it. But best you learn how to be a formulaic writer and churn out six romances a year.

Ten.

Ten romances a year. Because like there is a big audience for that. And if you get the formula right and you write in an immersive way, you can make money there.

Your big anything.

Else is a hit and miss.

AT Yeah, my two favorite things that I say are writing is not a get rich quick scheme. It's a work your butt off 24 hours a day, seven days a week for decades. And if you're very, very, very lucky, you might make a living scheme. Yeah. And then my other favorite is Steal a Man's wallet and he'll be broke for a week.

Teach a man to write, and he'll be broke for the rest of his life.

How do you balance promoting your work with connecting authentically with fans during these events?

That's an interesting question.

I mean, I'm always promoting, but I'm always promoting in a way that is a very you know, I'm a very authentic person. I'm a very approachable person. I feel like. So I'm never just like by my book, by my book, by my book, my my book, I'm just like, Hey, you're a geek like me.

What are you into? You know, what do you like or, you know, they're like, I love your book of this thing. Okay, What did you like about it? yeah, that was really cool, wasn't it? You know? You know, how did this make you feel or whatever? So I'm, I just try to I mean, I am just a nerd, so I just try to be a nerd authentically with my fans and just nerd out with them.

And if we're nerding out on something I wrote, great. If we're nerding out on, you know, something, some other IP, great. I don't really care. I just want to hang out with them and try to try to connect with them on a on a personal basis. So I don't know if I have I try to balance it as opposed to I just do it.

I tend to talk much less. So it's a little hard.

I talk about.

What's the most challenging aspect of being a guest speaker at conventions and festivals that people might not realize.

How long the days are.

Yeah.

It's a lot of work. You know, a fan will come up to me and spend 5 minutes with me, 8 minutes with me, and then they're gone doing whatever, or they'll come to my lecture for an hour and then they're gone for whatever I'm dealing with 1500 of those starting from first thing in the morning until the end of the day.

And then if I am hunting work, I have the after hours stuff that I do. I'm not hunting work anymore. So when the convention is done, I'm done. But still, you're talking about, you know, 9:00 in the morning till 6:00 at night, happened to always be on having to always be excited, always be happy, always be, you know, at your domain, you know, for the 872nd time, you know, So.

Let's let's talk about that. How do you manage your energy and maintain your enthusiasm over the course of a multiday event?

I mean, it's genuine for me. I'm genuinely excited to, to know that I'm impacting people that that what I do matters to them. It is really invigorating to me to have somebody love what I do. You know, I've done a million jobs in my life, but no time ever did anything when I was working at McDonald's. No time ever did somebody walk back and go, Did you make that Big Mac?

Did that change my life? That Big Mac really impacted me. Like not once. And so it is well, I mean, I walked into Gen Con to set up my booth. So we're talking about the day before the convention. And this author came up to me and handed me this book and he's like, read the dedication. And so I open it up and it says Acknowledgment.

This one is dedicated to Maxwell Alexander Drake. You help me in a way that can't be measured. This is the biggest honor that I could possibly get. This means more to me than anything out there. And so, you know, yes, he's also a professional author, but he's also a fan. And so when a fan does that for me, when, you know, I've got I've got a tub of mustard over there on my desk because I hate mustard.

And I use mustard in my theme class derogatorily about how I don't allow mustard in my house. And yet at Comic-Con, a fan brought me a thing of mustard, which means he went to my class at Comic-Con, the busiest convention in the United States, then left that convention to go to a grocery store to buy a thing of mustard, to then bring it to me at my booth as an appreciation for how my story impacted him, not had him signed and dated.

So I've got it sitting over there. It's the only mustard in this house, but that means the world to me, you know, means the world to me that I impacted someone enough that they were willing to. And I get it. He was making a joke too. But but that means that my story impacted him enough to want to do that for me.

You know, want to make that joke, to make that connection with me. And so I still have it. I'll never open it because mustard is the devil, so it will stay over there permanently closed forever. But it's that's very special to me. And so that really does energize me. That really is my energy level is at 110% the entire convention because I do love the fan interaction.

It's amazing. And it boggles my mind that people get frustrated by their fans, that people like, you want me to sign that? Fine. Like, because that's happened to me and I don't get it. I do not I don't understand how you can't appreciate someone who appreciates what you did. Yeah, it blows them. I can't. I can't ever imagine getting so numb to that that it's a burden.

So, yeah, that is really my secret for staying energized. It's the fans energize me.

I'm the opportunity to do. How do you approach networking with other professionals at these events? Any tips for making meaningful, meaningful connections?

All right. So there's a secret part of every convention. It's called Bar Con. Now, there is no official bar con at any convention, but every convention has a bar con. And basically what it is, is any convention has been going on for any amount of time that has any level of professionals. Each industry will pick a place, usually a bar, but it doesn't always have to be.

Sometimes it could be a hotel lobby, whatever. But that convention or that industry meets there every night of the event. So at Gin Con, there's a hotel lobby where artists and art directors meet. There is a bar where writers and publishers and agents meet every night, every night. That's where that industry goes and hangs out. It is an advertised.

You are not told about it. You have to kind of meet someone who knows where it's at and then kind of get invited to it because it is not something that anyone publicizes. But every convention has a bar con for every industry. So, you know, whatever it is, and you do have to kind of get into the inner workings of things to start finding out where these things are being held that so that you can go.

And the big reason is, is because they are not for marketing. And what will get you kicked out of them is you know like you go to the one at Gen Con where the publishers and agents hang out and you go there and you're like, I'm writer, here's my stuff. Please read my stuff. Read my stuff. Like that is not what bar cons are for.

You know, one of the very first times that I ever sat with a tour editor, I knew he was there. I knew who he was. I knew I wanted to talk to him. I went to the bar con he's sitting at the bar by himself. I walked up, I sat down next to him. I ordered a Coke because I don't drink.

And then I was like, How you doin? The con? It's like, what was your favorite part of the con? And then we ended up talking for about 4 hours. We moved to a table by ourselves. We talked about video games and we talked about movies and we talked about all sorts of stuff. And we just had a great time and.

Then at the end of it, he's like, Wow, it's getting late. I'm assuming you're a writer. And I'm like, Yeah, yeah, I write a word or two and he's like, Well, I mean, I've had a great time tonight. Are you pitching anything? You know? I'm like, Yeah, I got I might have something that I'm, I'm shopping. And he's like, Well, here's my card.

Why don't you send to me, man? Like, that's what bar con is for. It's for making those connections, but not pushing yourself on them. You have to have tact. You have to understand it's about getting to know people. Nobody wants to go to these after hours events and have you do what you would do to them if you went into their office during their workday.

That's not what Bachmanns are for and that's why they don't tell people about them. Like because they don't want people like that hounding them. It's sort of like you hear it all the time, these horror stories of like the at a writers conference, an agent will go into the bathroom and somebody will pitch them their book while they're literally using the toilet.

And it's like, What are you even thinking? Yeah, like how insane are you to think that somebody who is doing their private business is now going to actually offer you a contract because of your amazing story idea? Like, no, they're going to they're going to think that you are the ickiest horrible human being on the planet and they want nothing to do with you ever again.

No matter how brilliant your Harry Potter story is like, it doesn't matter at that point. Like, but people do that. People do that all the stinking time. And so that's my advice. Be a human being to these people and understand that a lot of this is just about who you know and if they like you or not. And so be authentic, be yourself, let them be themselves and get to know them.

And then people like to do business with people that they like. And it really is that simple.

And then, well, last one really is do you have any advice for someone aspiring to be a guest speaker at conventions and festivals? And how do you build out?

It's about so I used to teach, but in a past life I used to teach sales and the number one problem that salespeople has is asking for the sale. So it's very simple. You have a customer comes in, it's looking for a widget, they want a widget. They came to your widget store because they want a widget. You show them the widget, you ask them questions like What type of widget do you need?

What are you looking for in a widget? Okay, well, this meets all of your needs. This You want a widget that does A, B and C, this one does A, B, and C, It also does D, which is kind of cool. Whatever it meets your price range. And what price range you looking for? This is it. But while a lot of people don't have a problem with that, what they have a problem with is the end of it.

Which is So can I ring you up? You want to go ahead and get this today? You got to ask for the sale. You have to. So like with Comic-Con, one of the reasons why I started doing the classes is it cost a lot of money. I was at a small press. You might as well say I was a self-published writer.

As far as that's concerned. I had to pay for everything. I got to pay for travel. I got I mean, to begin my career, I was probably spending 40 to $50000 a year on conventions with travel, hotel food. You know, I was going to 20, 25, 30 a year, and I paid for all of it. And it's expensive.

And so somebody told me, hey, if you do classes for some of these things, sometimes they do things for you, like give you a free booth, or sometimes they pay for your hotel or sometimes they pay for your, you know, travel or whatever. And so I'm like, Well, I can do that. And so I went to when I was at Comic-Con that year, I was like, okay, look at this.

They're in their program guide. They do classes. Who runs this? it's this person, right? Where are they in the convention? Let me take time out and go find them. Hey, my name is Maxwell Alexander Drake. I'm a writer. I give classes on writing. These are some of the classes that I give. I would love to give a class here, you know?

Do you think I could do that next year? And she was like, No, no, we're Comic-Con. You're nobody? No. And I was like, sad. And then the next year I was at Comic-Con and I went up and I was like, Hey, memory from last year. I'm a writer named Max Alexander Drake. Just wanted to again say, you know, I'd you remind you that I give classes, you know, any chance that maybe next year.

And she was like, no, you're a nobody We're Comic-Con go away and I did that the third year and it was still a no and then before the fourth year so the third you know, first, second, third year, she told me no. But before fourth year, she called me a month before the convention. Hey, we had a cancellation.

I can find literally no one to do this. We've got a room that I need to put a body in. Do you want? Yes, Yes, I do. Like, that's literally how I started speaking at Comic-Con is I just kept every year politely putting myself in front of her, reminding her who I was, you know, Hey, I'm speaking at these other events.

These are the reviews that I'm getting from these other events. I would love to do this for you. And I just kept doing it. And now 17 years in a row, I've spoken at Comic-Con now that comes from the fact that I then put in a bunch of effort and they got a bunch of fan mail on me saying that this is the type of, you know, we want him back.

And so because I did my job and the fans got behind me, matter of fact, the third year that I was there, they told me that said, I can't because they're not supposed to do someone year after year after year because they don't want to seem like they're promoting somebody. And so after the third year they were like, We can't have you back next year and a month before that convention, cause I still had a booth there.

But for that convention they called me up and they were like, Hey, So our schedule came out and we've gotten so many emails complaining that you're not on our schedule, we're going to fix you in. And so when that happened that year, they were like, So, you know, we're just going to have you back every year. Like we're not supposed to do that.

But there's already one guy that we're doing that, and that's Jim Lee, the famous Marvel artist. He speaks with us every year because he's Jim Lee. And even though you're a nobody, for some reason, people like you. So we're just going to have you as well every year. And so but that's because I earned it at that point.

So put myself in front of them, made they knew who I was, made sure that I stayed with it and kept asking for the sale, asking for the sale, asking for the sale. And then when the opportunity came, I did everything in my power to make sure that it was the best that I could possibly do and earned now a permanent place.

Speaking at the largest fan convention in the United States for somebody who's a nobody. So that's my advice. It's work, it's effort, it's don't leave any stone unturned. It's luck doesn't happen. Luck is made. You know, people are like, you're so lucky that you get to speak. No. Yeah, you're right. I am lucky. I am not going to deny that.

But I made that luck. I chased that luck. I worked hard for that luck. So now it could have easily not happened to. I mean, what were the chances of somebody canceling three weeks before the event and then them not finding anyone? Because I guarantee you I was low on their list. It's not like I was the next person her to call.

She probably called a bunch of people before she works her way down to my little lowly butt. no, but look.

But the thing is, like, you know, the more effort you put in, the luckier you get because you are in the right places with the right skills.

Yeah.

So you have a larger percentage of getting lucky than somebody who's not.

Yeah. Wasn't luck that I was on her list. It was like that she worked her way down.

To is it was luck that everybody else said no. But you were on her list because you. Because you got yourself on her list, right? Yeah.

Exactly. So, you know, and that's been the story of my career. And technically, that's the story of my life. You know, I love to talk about my wife and my wife's meet. Cute how we met, but really the reality of it was when I was ready to start dating again, she had called me up and said, Hey, because her and me, neither one of us would eat dinner alone.

And so she had called me up saying she knew I would need a loan. And she was like, What are you doing for dinner? And I was like, I'm just here by myself. If you want to come over, we can order pizza wherever. Yeah, I was the last person she called. She called every single one of her friends, and nobody was available to eat because she had no interest in.

You know, she didn't because I was kind of a playboy at the time. So she was like, I have no interest in you either. You're not the type of person I want. Weirdly, I had stopped being that I was done with, that I was tired of that life. And so it just all happened kind of serendipitously. But literally, she probably called 15 other people.

And if any of them had said, Yeah, I'll go with you to to eat, I might even be married to her. Like, so yeah, it's just but it's still being there. It's still just putting yourself on those lists and being available and then saying, that's the other thing. You know, I've told this story before. I think one of the biggest thing that gets people in, that gets in people's way in this career is fear of failure.

I've never failed in my life. It's not that I've never not succeeded at something, but everything that I've not succeeded at, I've learned a lesson. You can't fail if you learn. If I actually gained knowledge because I slammed my face into the floor, then that's not a failure. I learned something. And so I'm not afraid of failure because I don't fail.

I may not achieve what I was hoping to achieve, but I always learn something. I always grow. I always figure out something new to make it better for me and the future and so, so many people are afraid to fail and that they just so they just don't try. They just don't put themselves on the list because it's like, what if I fail?

Or What if you don't achieve it, but you learn something because that's not failing. So that's the difference. The difference in me is that I'm just not afraid of planting my face on the floor because I'm going to learn so much by that planting of that face. It's going to hurt. I'm not saying it doesn't hurt. I just planted my face on the floor like it hurts.

But I learned a lot from that face plant and I won't make those mistakes again. And so I can't consider that a failure. I just can't. And that's why I feel like I've never failed in my entire life because everything teaches me something. And so that's that's the thing that I think is my biggest advantage over most people.

Most people are just too afraid to try. They're just too afraid to ask. They're too afraid to to step off the cliff. They don't want to publish their book because what if someone doesn't like it? Okay, What if someone does? Like, who cares? Like, what if no one likes it? Okay. Are you going to learn if if no one likes your book and you get to the only stars you get as a one star and every single one of them says, I'm only given this book a one star because I need to tell you how terrible it is.

And if I could give it a10 star and still tell you how terrible it is, I would have given it a zero star. Now, that is a soul crushing start to a critique, you know? But what are you going to learn in that critique? What is this person going to say that's going to open your eyes to the mistakes that you make?

Now, again, it's how you handle it. If you go, Yes, I suck, I'll never do this again. And that's it then, then, yeah, you fail. But if you go, okay, well, let me see what I did that made this person so angry that they put this level of review on and it's like they used weak verbs constantly. Since that was our last book, it's like, I don't even know what a weak verb is.

Maybe I should go find, I don't know, a podcast by some weird people that are doing Releasing Your Inner Dragon. They talk about how not to use weak verbs and maybe learn something from it. Like then you didn't fail. Yes, you got a horrible reviews on your book. Yes, your book wasn't successful. But if you learn something I don't I just don't see how you can consider that a failure.

So that's really it. That's my advice to people in all of this career. It's what I try to give the advice in the writers room. It's, you know, because I'm not a cheerleader, because I never say it's easy. I never say you can do it. All you got to do is just do it that everything is going to work out for you because, you know, rainbows and unicorn farts.

I don't see it that it's effort, It's time, It's it's pain. It's it's working through it, you know, that's what it is. But if you're afraid to try, then you're what's what's the statement? It's always a no. If you don't try, the answer is always a no. If you never ask, that's what it is. It's always it's always a no.

If you never ask. Yeah, it may be a no. If you ask, but it's always a no if you don't answer.

And I think that that is a good note on which to end this episode.

No.

We will see you soon, for another.

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